Help! Refusing Correct Position

[nedklly]

Hi Everyone,

I'm very new to this board, but am in need of some help since I want to continue BF. My litte one is just 5 days and had to be supplemented due to his 10% weigh loss (down to 5lbs, 8oz). Before this, he was incorrectly positioned leaving me with some sore and chapped nipples.

After expressing via a pump for a few days and bottle feeding to ensure that he was gaining weight, we went to a lactation consultant who helped with position and offered a number of other solutions. THe problem? He is now refusing to BF in the correct position, he boycotts and cries. He will only feed in the incorrect position (lower lip right below nipple).

Any ideas on how to correct?  I am not prepared to give up the battle...

JB

[O'pumpkin, my pumpkin]

If you are still supplementing, is it possible for you to supplement him at the breast using a supplemental nursing system?

Both of my babies had shallow latches at first. They didn't take enough of the breast into their mouths and both had very small mouths at first. I found that unlatching and relatching them over and over again to get a proper latch only frustrated and upset them. Instead, I'd try to get the best latch I could on the first try and then use my thumb to flick out their lower lips while pushing more of my breast into their mouths. They weren't thrilled about this, but it was much less upsetting for them than continually breaking the latch and starting over.

When you're latching the baby on, there are some techniques you can try in order to get a good latch listed here. LINK
 SOme awesome latching videos and tips http://www.breastfeedingonline.com/newman.shtml
 The asymetrical latch can be very helpful for sore nipples. Are you using anything on your nipples to alleviate the soreness? Like PurLan or Lansinoh? These are both lanolin creams and can be very soothing and healing for sore, blistered and/or cracked nipples.

[O'pumpkin, my pumpkin]

One more link

http://www.lalecheleague.org/llleaderweb/LV/LVFebMar04p3.html

[Saree]

Zack had a horrid latch at first, and it is really hard

What I found helped was doing the scissor hold of my breast (like squishing a think sandwich to fit your mouth). I would use my lower finger of the hold to tease out his lower lip as he latched. I would also unlatch straight away if he was doing it wrong- then use the wide mouth as he opened his mouth to scream for latch

I also found that I could only do this really effectively with my right hand- so I used football hold when i was feeding him from the left boob. (Sorta propped uinder the left arm, with left hand supporting his head.)

I also had a nippple sheild given to me by a LC as apparently I was tensing up as he latched. (from the pain). It really helped me to not have that reaction- I only needed to use it for a few days while my poor nipples healed.

Good luck! I hope it goes well.

[O'pumpkin, my pumpkin]

I would definitely see your LC again if you haven't already. Saree gace great advice! The football hold can be a life saver.  Also, it might sound silly, but taking off your shirt and stripping your babe to his diaper so that there's lots of skin to skin contact can help a LOT as well. The 'sandwich boob' thing helped us a lot in the beginning. A nipple sheild might help too.  Your LC can help you find the right kind/size and show you proper positioning with it. 

[Saree]

Oh, I forgot- I have big breasts anyway- and in the beginning they tended to get engorged and hard. I found that Zack would get a much better latch if i hand expressed am little- usually in the shower or into the bathroom sink- just to soften up the breast and get less of a contract between his poor little mouth and my huge boob

Skin to skin worked great for us too. I usually had to take off my shirt and bra to get a "good view" so i could see what the hell I was doing. The first month or so there was NO feeding in public

[MamaX]

Congratulations on the birth of your baby!  I think Saree had some great advice and I do agree that a LC should be able to help.  My son had a horrible latch at first and it was painful but after about a week or so we were able to work things out.  A lot of trial and error though!

I hope you are able to get the support you need. 

[FishHeel]

Instead, I'd try to get the best latch I could on the first try and then use my thumb to flick out their lower lips while pushing more of my breast into their mouths. They weren't thrilled about this, but it was much less upsetting for them than continually breaking the latch and starting over.

This is what I usually did.  Often, latch wasn't ideal and I would periodically get sore nipples, but we got through it.
Saree also has very good advice.  When my babies were newborns, I could use the cradle hold when they nursed from my left breast, but for my right side, they had to be in the football hold.  My right nipple is flatter on the bottom, and they would slide right up no matter what I did unless they were in the football hold.

Keep working with your LC.  Breastfeeding is natural, but there is an aspect of learned skill to it as well.  Many of the 'natural' things we do require instruction to be done well.

[nedklly]

Thanks Everyone for all of the good advice!

First, I have a call into my LC again for additional advice. There is also a support group at the hospital we delivered at which meets on Tuesdays and I will be attending that. Figured with all of the BF'ers out there, there would be some good help there

The things I have tried:
1. We have to strip Logan to his diaper to just wake up. He is a very sleepy baby that would probably sleep through the night if we did not   wake him.

2. I've tried the latch and relatch,which yes is very frustrating.

3. I've tried the repositioning once latched and once I fix him, he stops.

4. I've let him nurse in the slighly incorrect position as it is not too painful (but I can see after where he is a bit too close) just to keep him intersted. 

5. My nipples are almost healed now with all of the guidance and assistance from the LC's, lansinoh and the switching off with the materny-mates (both not used at the same time).  All is good there.  We are both healthy and ready to go, but we nee to work on the latching.

So... at this point, we are fighting eachother as to whose latch will win.. In the end, I hope it is me.

For now, this is what I am doing:

Pumping enough for his feed (as we need to anyway since he is underweight and needs to be watched as to what he is getting).
Before feeding him from the bottle, we  work on the latch until we both get frustrated.
Then I give him the bottle.

Cross your fingers. I'm going to check out the above websites as well.  I really appreciate all of your help as I want to make this work. Pumping every 2 hours is just too much and I cannot get anything done. And let's face it, 40 minutes with a pump is not quite the same as 40 minutes or an hour with your child snuggled with you..

[Creeky]

It sounds like you got wonderful advice. Everybody said all the things I was going to suggest!

Instead, I'd try to get the best latch I could on the first try and then use my thumb to flick out their lower lips while pushing more of my breast into their mouths. They weren't thrilled about this, but it was much less upsetting for them than continually breaking the latch and starting over.

This is what I usually did. Often, latch wasn't ideal and I would periodically get sore nipples, but we got through it.
Saree also has very good advice. When my babies were newborns, I could use the cradle hold when they nursed from my left breast, but for my right side, they had to be in the football hold. My right nipple is flatter on the bottom, and they would slide right up no matter what I did unless they were in the football hold.

Keep working with your LC. Breastfeeding is natural, but there is an aspect of learned skill to it as well. Many of the 'natural' things we do require instruction to be done well.

I did this as well with Garrett.

[June]

Just wanted to say "Good Luck" and these girls have great advice. 

[O'pumpkin, my pumpkin]

Have you tried getting him latched before pumping? You'd have to do this before his is typically starving, but I have personally found that what begins as a poor latch can evolve into a good one once baby is actively sucking and swallowing milk rather than sucking shallowly to get a letdown. The good news is that as he grows, his muscles relax and his mouth gets bigger, his latch will most likely improve drastically. The bad news is that it takes some time.

In any event, it sounds like you are on the right track!

[dewy Penny]

Pumpky's got a good point. Timing is everything with feeding newborns - you want him to be hungry enough to do some work, but not too hungry because then he'll be easily frustrated.

[dewy Penny]

I just wanted to update, as she's a friend of mine and said that I could - the latch is improving, and baby is gaining weight! She was getting so frustrated that she was thinking about quitting, and now, she's ecstatic about the improvement! Thanks everyone!

[nedklly]

Thanks Jen!!

Yes, thanks to the help of all of you, Jen, and my LC, Logan is doing great. He was at the breast all day yesterday (literally every hour!!) and doing well. We are getting there. Yesterday was a new day. We are not by any means "all set", but really who is???   

I'm am absolutely thrilled things are working out as this was something near and dear to me. Let's hope it continues in an upward trend with only a few dips back down.

Thanks again for all of the good advice. He is even allowing me to modify his latch now...